MPSF tournament

[neversaydie]

With Pepperdine beating UCLA and Stanford beating CAL

Are the top 6 MPSF teams for tournament play set up as..

1usc
2stanford
3pepperdine
4ucla
5cal
6santabarbara

[YellowBall]

Well Cal and UCSB are both 4-4 in MSPF. Will it depend on a coin flip?

[Trevor]

Cal beat UOP 10-7 so they clinch the fifth seed (below is a listing of scenarios I found on the MPSF site).

http://mpsports.cstv.com/sports/m-wpolo ... 08aaa.html

[White.01]

So it looks like:

USC-Irvine
Stan- LB
Pep-SB
UCLA-Cal

USC by alot, Stan by 1, Pepp by 4, UCLA by 2

[White.01]

Is the UOP program in jeopardy of being cut, Both men and women? This is the 2nd year of UOP ending their season early, and a few years ago, UOP women went 0-24 (or so, they had zero wins). Last year wasn't much better for the women.

[my69442w30]

Is the UOP program in jeopardy of being cut, Both men and women? This is the 2nd year of UOP ending their season early, and a few years ago, UOP women went 0-24 (or so, they had zero wins). Last year wasn't much better for the women.

Men's team just hired a new coach this year, James Graham.

[Zerometer]

The UCLA-Pep result was shocking.. Does that mean they will have to beat all top 3 teams now to win the MPSF championship.

[White.01]

Yes, barring an upset, it looks like UCLA would have the toughest road to the NCAA tourney, they'll have to beat CAL, then USC in the semis, then Stanford (this is assuming the higher seed wins, Stan over LB and Pepp over SB, then Stan over Pepp). They'll have to win the MPSF tourney to get the Bid to NCAA's.

[Bar-Out]

Yes, barring an upset, it looks like UCLA would have the toughest road to the NCAA tourney, they'll have to beat CAL, then USC in the semis, then Stanford (this is assuming the higher seed wins, Stan over LB and Pepp over SB, then Stan over Pepp). They'll have to win the MPSF tourney to get the Bid to NCAA's.

You could say the same thing about Cal. The only team that is in the NCAA for sure is USC and Cal, Stanford and UCLA will likely need to win the tournament in order to get a bid. If USC wins the MPSF, than second place could be the at large bid.

[fanofpolo]

Bar-out, I don't believe second place is necessarily the automatic "at-large" bid for NCAA's unless it's USC. I believe Stanford could feel pretty comfortable being in the MPSF final but any of the other schools in the final that don't win will really make things complex. The no-brainer would be USC losing in the final (or any other round for that matter) to any opponent. The tournament champion and USC will receive NCAA bids. I believe Stanford has a slight advantage at his point with MPSF wins over both UCLA and Cal. It will be very interesting. As the old saying goes, "let them decide it in the pool".

[Moderator]

Pepperdine will be webcasting the MPSF's. I am sure there will be a charge but it should be worth it.

[polopete]

This isn't rocket science.

for USC not to go to the ncaa they'd have to not make the semi finals, ie lose their first round game.

now assuming USC wins their bracket and Pepperdine wins their bracket..

a pepperdine win in MPSF means Pep and USC (2nd MPSF) are in the NCAA's
But if pepperdine has a 2nd place finish vs a stanford 3rd place finish in MPSF, pep's 2nd place mpsf finish does not guarantee them a selection to NCAA's, as stanford might still be ranked 2nd overall in NCAA's for at large consideration

If stanford beats pep in semi play and its USC vs Stanford in the finals... irregardless of who wins, both Stanford and USC would be invited to the NCAA's

Cal and UCLA are realistically out of contention, until 1 beats the other (CALvsUCLA) and that winner beats USC... so if USC is playing in the consolation game ie for 3rd. Even still UCLA or CAL would have to win MPSF to advance to the NCAA's as one would anticipate USC would then finish 3rd ( and maybe even 4th) in MPSF and USC would get the atlarge berth as the top ranked at large team. the bottom line, for CAL or UCLA to go to the NCAA's, they need to win MPSF.

[Bar-Out]

Bar-out, I don't believe second place is necessarily the automatic "at-large" bid for NCAA's unless it's USC. I believe Stanford could feel pretty comfortable being in the MPSF final but any of the other schools in the final that don't win will really make things complex. The no-brainer would be USC losing in the final (or any other round for that matter) to any opponent. The tournament champion and USC will receive NCAA bids. I believe Stanford has a slight advantage at his point with MPSF wins over both UCLA and Cal. It will be very interesting. As the old saying goes, "let them decide it in the pool".

Fanofpolo--
You are correct. What I was implying was that Cal/UCLA need to make it to the finals with Stanford /USC faltering badly to have a chance at the at large. Clearly Stanford has the inside track to the at large. Several very good things have to happen for Cal/UCLA including Stanford to go out in the first or second round. Since either Cal/UCLA will play USC in the second round, it appear as though their only path forward will be to win the tournament if you assume Stanford makes it to the final. A second place finish to Stanford would have Stanford/USC going to the NCAA's. Pepperdine might have something to say about all this as well.

Bottom line---we need a new NCAA format ---8 teams.

[aselder]

Bar-out, I don't believe second place is necessarily the automatic "at-large" bid for NCAA's unless it's USC. I believe Stanford could feel pretty comfortable being in the MPSF final but any of the other schools in the final that don't win will really make things complex. The no-brainer would be USC losing in the final (or any other round for that matter) to any opponent. The tournament champion and USC will receive NCAA bids. I believe Stanford has a slight advantage at his point with MPSF wins over both UCLA and Cal. It will be very interesting. As the old saying goes, "let them decide it in the pool".

Fanofpolo--
You are correct. What I was implying was that Cal/UCLA need to make it to the finals with Stanford /USC faltering badly to have a chance at the at large. Clearly Stanford has the inside track to the at large. Several very good things have to happen for Cal/UCLA including Stanford to go out in the first or second round. Since either Cal/UCLA will play USC in the second round, it appear as though their only path forward will be to win the tournament if you assume Stanford makes it to the final. A second place finish to Stanford would have Stanford/USC going to the NCAA's. Pepperdine might have something to say about all this as well.

Bottom line---we need a new NCAA format ---8 teams.

Bar-out,

As much as we all say that we'd like an 8 team format, the reality is that the NCAA determines the size of the championship tournament by the number of participating program. If I have my facts right, men's water polo is right at (or slightly below) the number of teams need to have a 4 team tournament, much less an 8 team tournament.

I'd love to see an 8 team tournament, but there are only two realistic paths to such an event

1. Substantially increase the number of men's varsity teams. Probably talking in the range of doubling the number of teams. This is realistically not feasible in the short term

or

2. Forgo the "official" NCAA tournament, and have some other organization (USWP, some private sponsor, whomever) organize a larger event, similar to what the women had prior to their official NCAA tournament. This approach has the downside of get entangled in the massive web that is the NCAA regulations manual. As much of a headache as this would be, I think this is the more feasible approach assuming the teams and coaches would be willing to forgo their offical "NCAA" championship. Given what the schools decided on the women's side of things, I wouldn't count on it.

So, as great as it would be for the sport, I don't see anything larger than a 4 team tournament for the foreseeable future.

[fanofpolo]

I don't believe there is anything that can happen at the MPSF tournament that would keep USC from an invitation to NCAA tournament.....including a first round loss.