Putting the ball in play immediately...

[contrafoul]

I was told by another referee a few weeks ago that this was discussed at the referee training recently held in the Coastal California Zone. And I want to make sure he had it right. He told me that when a player is awarded an ordinary foul, he or she must immediately but the ball in play by dropping or releasing the ball, a water polo move like a pump fake will not suffice in "making it live." If the player does not do this immediately, it should be whistled a contra. Is this the correct understanding of what was discussed at the referee training. Maybe Alan, could weigh in on this.

If they are going to all of a sudden announce something like this, IMHO, it should at least be mentioned in the monthly referee email from JC. At the moment, it did not seem like SOPAC coaches or referees are aware of this.

[contrafoul]

so I guess my question here is: doess a water polo move like a hard pump fake count as putting the ball in play.

[Doru Roll]

Under FINA rules, the ball is considered in play the instant it leaves the player's hand. This can be simply picking the ball up and dropping it. The player closest to the ball is obligated to put the ball in play "immediately", before doing anything else such as pump faking or swimming with the ball. Under NCAA rules, the ball is in play once the player has made any motion that can be considered a "water polo move". Simply picking up the ball is not a water polo move in either case. The amount of time allowed for the taking of a free throw is discretionary, but three seconds should be ample time unless the foul was hard and the player needs a little more time to recover.

[Allen Lorentzen]

Maybe Alan, could weigh in on this.

Doru pretty much covers it above. This is nothing new, per the rules. It was mostly brought up at the clinic because of a pump fake after a foul in one of the videos. This should be a turnover in USAWP. It would be good for us all to follow this more closely in USAWP. As Doru pointed out this is different than NCAA. Cullingham pointed out we don't do our National team athletes competing internationally any favors by not whistling the way it is when they travel.

If you have particular concerns about any issues you think would be good for Cullingham to put into his referee email you should just let him know and/or contact your Zone Head Referee for input and feedback.

[contrafoul]

Maybe Alan, could weigh in on this.

Doru pretty much covers it above. This is nothing new, per the rules. It was mostly brought up at the clinic because of a pump fake after a foul in one of the videos. This should be a turnover in USAWP. It would be good for us all to follow this more closely in USAWP. As Doru pointed out this is different than NCAA. Cullingham pointed out we don't do our National team athletes competing internationally any favors by not whistling the way it is when they travel.

If you have particular concerns about any issues you think would be good for Cullingham to put into his referee email you should just let him know and/or contact your Zone Head Referee for input and feedback.

Yes Doru's response was helpful. My partner brought it up the other day as something new from USWP and that is why I wanted to ask about it. So just to clarify, in the video you guys watched, a player took a pump fake after a foul, before putting the ball in play, and that should be considered a turnover? In USWP, is a water polo move like a pump fake, putting the ball into play?

[Allen Lorentzen]

Maybe Alan, could weigh in on this.

Doru pretty much covers it above. This is nothing new, per the rules. It was mostly brought up at the clinic because of a pump fake after a foul in one of the videos. This should be a turnover in USAWP. It would be good for us all to follow this more closely in USAWP. As Doru pointed out this is different than NCAA. Cullingham pointed out we don't do our National team athletes competing internationally any favors by not whistling the way it is when they travel.

If you have particular concerns about any issues you think would be good for Cullingham to put into his referee email you should just let him know and/or contact your Zone Head Referee for input and feedback.

Yes Doru's response was helpful. My partner brought it up the other day as something new from USWP and that is why I wanted to ask about it. So just to clarify, in the video you guys watched, a player took a pump fake after a foul, before putting the ball in play, and that should be considered a turnover? In USWP, is a water polo move like a pump fake, putting the ball into play?

Yes, the pump fake we saw in that video probably should have been a turnover in USAWP and FINA per Jim Cullingham. In USAWP / FINA the player is supposed to "immediately" put the ball in play by showing clear separation from the hand by passing, shooting, tossing up off the hand, dropping to the water. A "water polo move" (legal for putting in play in NCAA) such as a pump fake or swimming with the ball - without picking it up and showing separation - does not count as putting the ball in play in USAWP / FINA. Because of the overlap between rules, and because there may be other things of more pressing interest to focus on at the same time, we haven't paid as much attention to this simple rule as we could.

[contrafoul]

Thanks for clarifying that, there was a coach the other day telling me that for USWP a water polo move such as a pump fake is considered putting the ball in play, now I know that that coach is an NCAA official so he must have just been confused about that.

[oldtimer]

A couple of years ago, spinning the ball in hand was considered putting it into play. Is that still the case?